Exploring Beer on Both Sides of the Atlantic : An Interview with Ryan Pachmayer, American Journalist and Specialist in Brewing Culture

La Cité des Brasseurs is pleased to welcome Ryan Pachmayer, an American journalist specializing in beer and brewing culture, on the occasion of his European tour. In a fascinating cross-analysis of the French and American brewing landscapes, he offers a pragmatic vision of the current market and invites us to move beyond the opposition between industrial and craft breweries. Read this article in French.

La Cité des Brasseurs : Hello Ryan, could you introduce yourself in a few words and especially tell us about your activity in the brewing field? 

Ryan Pachmayer : I am a beer writer from Denver, Colorado. I grew up in Chicago–originally beginning homebrewing in 2006. In 2020, my escape room business was on hold during COVID. I could not start another business, but I was also too anxious to sit around and do nothing (what we might call “stir crazy”). I started working in the production of a local brewery called New Image Brewing. I began to write about beer, in both national and local publications. I became the regular beer writer for Denver’s Westword Magazine in 2022–I cover all topics related to local beer. I was a professional brewer briefly in 2021-2022 for a small local brewpub. There, I worked to improve two house beers–German Pilsner and West Coast IPA (two of my favorite styles). It was a very part-time job (I was the only brewery employee). The system became non-functional however, and the owner has kept primary production of the main line at the larger brewery (in South Denver). Today, I primarily write about beer for national publications such as Craft Beer & Brewing, Zymurgy and Hop Culture. I continue to write locally for Westword Magazine, and I also run events for New Image Brewing, with some miscellaneous work in PR and marketing at times.

L.C.B : You recently wrote an article about the history of Pils in France and in Alsace. How did you come up with the idea of working on this subject? 

R.P : This is one of the few topics that I did not come up with myself. My editor for Zymurgy, Amahl Turczyn, said that another author had dropped out of the topic and he asked if I wanted to write about it. I told him to let me look into the subject before I accept. I spent 24-48 hours reading about Alsatian Pilsner, Alsace in general, and I also spoke to my German brewing friend (who used to spend summers in France and is close to the folks at Hop France). There were only a handful of previous articles about the pilsners of Alsace and they left me with more questions. I was intrigued to find out more information, and also about the style. I had tasted pilsners with Alsatian hops in them before, and some of those beers were quite favorable. I quickly accepted the assignment and began reaching out to many different people. It became my longest published article and it was one of the most enjoyable to write.

L.C.B: France is not really considered a “beer country” . But some of its regions, such as Alsace and the North, are traditional brewing regions with a genuine beer culture. How do you see the French brewing landscape? In comparison with Italy, Spain, or Portugal?

R.P: I see the current French brewing landscape as strong, more similar to Italy than Spain or Portugal, who seem to be far less developed/deep. For whatever reason, France seems to be particularly under-appreciated. The historical breweries of Belgium see a lot of attention, as do the breweries in Germany and Czechia. But with over 2,000 breweries, France is very strong itself. It used to surprise me how many folks would visit the countryside of Belgium and tell me about visiting some excellent saison breweries (as well as Trappist breweries), but somehow they have not even heard of the excellent Thiriez (just across the border, in France).

Or how many people would tell me that Paris is not too big on beer, it is more of a place to drink wine. While the wine part of that statement is very true (excellent, affordable wines are plentiful!), there are some quality breweries and bars around the city. I’m not certain why these things are overlooked. It seems like there is a rising appreciation for French hops, and even French beers, however, so perhaps the perception can change.

L.C.B : In the USA there is a true beer culture among consumers, who are able to distinguish between different beer styles. You often find taps with craft beer in bars right alongside industrial ones. This is less common in France where, outside of knowledgeable consumer circles and big cities, people still mostly refer to beer by its color (blonde, brown, amber) rather than by its style. Moreover, outside Alsace or the North, the beers served in cafés, hotels, and restaurants are generally from the big (often foreign) groups. Finally, France is a major importer of foreign beers. How do you explain the emergence of this “diffuse beer culture” in the USA? What would be needed for France to progress in that direction?

R.P : This is a complex question. Some of the reason for this is because of how American transitioned from only drinking big company beer, to a craft beer revolution. Craft beer had to fight for shelf space at liquor stores, for taps at bars. Some of this might have to do with the way beer is distributed in the USA–big distribution companies often carry both large companies and smaller craft breweries. Also, many craft breweries have become quite large over the years (Dogfish Head), some have been bought by major international companies (New Belgium, Bell’s, Goose Island), while others remain private (Sierra Nevada). The line can be gray between these too (Firestone Walker is owned by Duvel-Moortgat, for example). There used to be a “big beer is evil, craft beer is small and good” sort of sentiment in the USA–20 years ago, perhaps. It is far more complex these days. There are 9,000 breweries in the USA, and it is hard to tell what is big, small, independent or not. Which companies take good care of their employees and which do not? ‘Small vs big” or “craft vs not” is no longer such an easy distinction to answer the questions everyone wants to answer.

The American craft beer consumer was very much driven by experimentation, adventure and discovery, however. This led to trying many new beer styles. This isn’t necessarily the best path to go down–while it worked well for America, I don’t know that it is the best path for every other country. France is not necessarily behind, when you look at other European countries in this way. Would you call Germany “behind” in beer? The craft movement in France is arguably more developed than Germany right now. When I order a “dunkel” in Franconia, the server will bring me the darkest beer on the menu. It is not a style, but a word (“dark”). The same can often be said about Helles (pale). Czech beer culture is not so focused on styles either. Czech and German beer culture is some of the greatest in the world, however. 

I personally see styles as a way to communicate to consumers first and foremost. It can also be interesting to learn about how beers were developed (using styles as a way to organize thoughts). I do not think that styles should restrict brewers, however. Yes, sometimes you should call your beer something else (a “Kolsch” beer filled with coffee and spices should just be called a spiced ale in my opinion), but it doesn’t mean that you should not make that beer.

But back to the topic, I don’t know if France needs to chase America’s path, or just develop its own unique identity. There are some very strong pillars in French brewing that can continue to be highlighted. Biere blanche, for example, looks to be common in French brewing–but it is the Belgians (who rarely make the style) who get all the attention for witbier. There is also Biere de Garde, as well as some of the historic lager breweries. Meteor is large and independent and making delicious beer–why can this not be the equivalent to Augustiner Brau in Munich?

A person can be drinking the same type of beer in a Czech pub for 50 years and not know much about beer styles. I do not see this as a problem. The way beer is a central component to the social nature of these cultures is impressive to me and something I think we can even learn from in the United States sometimes. Perhaps France has too much competition because of the high quality of the wine. I also do not see this as a problem (look at the high quality of the brandies, including specific regions such as Cognac and Armagnac!). Associating “high quality” with alcohol beverages might be one path for France to continue to move towards, similar to how French cuisine is not necessarily known as “one thing” but a combination of high quality chefs/food/creativity.

There are multiple paths that a brewing culture can move towards, however. With a rising competition and demand being flat for craft beer, many breweries in the US have moved towards wider-appealing “gathering spaces.” Many events, wide ranges of beverages offered (not just beers), from non-alcoholic, to spirits and wines and ciders. I think this is a good thing. The social value of alcohol and drinks being consumed in an ideal setting is the most important thing in my opinion. In the US, that seems to mean more choice. I will always appreciate the small village brewery that offers only one beer, however. Those are some of my favorite places to visit in Europe and that rich, unique culture is a big part of why I continue to travel to Europe to seek out beer experiences.

L.C.B : French beer consumers have a liking for flavored beers (for example, the Slash Berry or Mango range from Licorne Brewery was the most popular beer at the Schiltigheim Beer Festival—something unthinkable 15 years ago). How do you see this enthusiasm for non-traditional beers?

R.P : These are not often my favorite types of beers, but I welcome experimentation. If consumers enjoy something and are passionate about it, I like seeing the creativity and passion from the brewers. When people ask which beer styles I like/don’t like, I often reply that I enjoy certain beers from every style. I certainly favor German and Czech lagers, Belgian and English ales, as well as dry, American styles (pale ale, West Coat IPA, hoppy lager). But I would rather have a slushy beer from a brewery who has passionately created something interesting to drinkers than an unbalanced pilsner. I don’t think we should discourage what people like, we should embrace it. There is room for a lot of creativity and skill in the brewing world, we shouldn’t try to force people to drink something, we should build around what they are attracted to.

L.C.B : What is your favorite French beer?

R.P : I really love the beers from Brasserie Thiriez. Daniel has done a remarkable job of creating such flavorful beers, without growing too large. It’s a sustainable, family business, with his daughter now taking over operations. The Alsatian pilsners that I wrote about are quite tasty too. Meteor is made the way I wish a lot of industrial American lagers were made–it actually has some hops in it! It’s decoction mashed. There are more late hops in it than I expect–I get plenty of herbal and grassy flavors from that beer, but the filtration really makes the whole thing work well. Perle isn’t nearly as large by comparison, and it’s an entirely different pilsner. It has more bitterness, without being sharp. It has some more malt character from the Munich malt as opposed to Meteor’s opposite direction with corn. It’s also a bit higher in alcohol, accentuating that body and providing a fuller pils experience. I could drink either beer all night long !

From the craftier breweries, Les Intenables was particularly impressive. I tasted through a handful of their range and they would be a top US craft brewery if they setup shop in the states. Mogwaï isn’t making beers that I tend to reach for first, but they execute what they do so darn well–I’d happily buy mixed 4 packs or individual cans from them to bring to parties and share and provide talking points. Taal had a really nice Flanders Red when I visited. They nailed the balance well. Their entire range is maltier than a lot of breweries and comes off as being really focused on having a balanced character. You can tell they have a focus and really execute it at a high level.

I really do think French hops are of a very high quality. Germany and Czechia have had some very difficult climate conditions in recent years, and I believe French hops have fared better. The delicate, high quality of Strisselspalt (rivals Hallertauer Mittelfruh and Saaz when at its best), along with the dual purpose nature of Aramis (reminds me of Perle) are very appealing to use in many lager styles, as well as Trappist beers and saisons. The even newer hops like Triskel, Barbe Rouge, Elixir and Mistral have come across very distinctive and positive in many beers I have tried. 

Maybe more appropriate in response to some of your other questions, but a focused French tourism department working to promote French hops, French brewing culture and French beer would really have a strong foundation of quality to work with.

L.C.B : You travel across Europe for beer tourism and to write articles. Could you tell us more about your road trip?

R.P : Every year, I try to visit Europe with a focus on discovering breweries, beers and places. I love to meet passionate brewers of beers new and old and hear about what they do and why they do it. My travels have taken me to Belgium, France, Austria, Czechia and Germany. Last fall, I spent six days with a friend biking through the Franconian countryside, visiting some fantastic family run breweries and meeting many local people and brewers. It was a great time. 

This year, I will join Herve near Strasbourg and then briefly in Paris, before a 10-day Belgian tour with the Colorado breweries Bruz and Purpose. I will then travel to Freising, to attend Drinktec in Munich and maybe Oktoberfest too. I will travel back to Nuremberg and write a story about Rotbier (a style that is not well understood here in America), to Bamberg to write about smoked beer, and then to Dusseldorf to write about Altbier. I will also complete an article about the style “Dunkel,” and talk to several sources along my travels.

L.C.B : There are some similarities between French and American brewing history, especially the bankruptcy of historically established large industrial breweries (for example in the USA: Michelob, Lone Star… and in France/Alsace: Mutzig, Perle). How do you see this phenomenon?

R.P : I see it as a part of big business/corporations/capitalism. In the US, I often see businesses that are afraid of missing out on growth. They maximize leverage, often by increasing debt. They want to capture the “upside” of growth. Far too often, however, these businesses put themselves at risk of failure. I like to use an analogy in the National Football League (NFL) here in America: Every coach seems to dream of being the head coach. Some are better suited at being offensive coordinators, or assistants. But everyone always seems to want to push to be at the “top” in their mind. I think businesses can learn from that and set expectations accordingly. Growth at “any cost” is not a good plan. Breweries should recognize that sometimes their role is to be small or medium. Not every business should just continue to grow. A lot can be learned from small European breweries that have successfully run for many generations. They are true assets to their culture and many of them would have failed if they were too short-sighted and took out debts in order to increase growth. Nobody can predict the future in sales or market trends reliably. Many try, few succeed (and it’s most often by luck). Investing in your company, your people, the quality, sustainability–this is usually the smartest play. 

L.C.B : The collective La Cité des Brasseurs aims to preserve French brewing heritage by collecting memories and objects from Alsatian brewing history. We are also working to save the brewhouse of the Brasserie de l’Espérance—one of the most beautiful in France—by turning it into a museum and activity space after the definitive closure of the Heineken brewery in Schiltigheim. Are there similar initiatives in the USA ?

R.P : This sounds like a wonderful plan. Some places in the US that come to mind are the project in Vicksburg, Michigan (Cone Top Brewery Museum). The Potosi Brewery Museum is another one that comes to mind, near Iowa and Illinois, but in Wisconsin along the Mississippi River.

Many of us are waiting to see what happens to the Anchor Steam brand. The billionaire Chobani yogurt owner bought it almost a year and a half ago and there have been few updates. That is a relevant story to your last question–a brand whose famous owner (Fritz Maytag, a craft beer pioneer) sold years ago to a private group. That private group then sold to Sapporo. Instead of understanding that the iconic Steam Beer was more of a niche, and something that maybe deserved to be strong locally (in bars, restaurants, with a strong over the counter sales strategy at the iconic, historic brewery) and maybe smaller nationally, they decided to try to make the brewery a national powerhouse. They likely felt the need to do this because of how much money they paid to purchase it. The brewery also has a lot of unique, manual equipment–not suitable for making a lot of the beers in Sapporo’s portfolio. Whoever made that decision was not very intelligent when it came to the beer industry, and hopefully Sapporo has fixed its personnel/decision-making problems that resulted in this fiasco.

In any case, the brewery ceased to operate and the Chobani billionaire bought it to rescue the brand. The building houses a lot of historic equipment–steam beer is made in unique ways (for America), with copper kettles, open fermenters and even a coolship being used (uncommon outside of spontaneous/wild beers). It is a beer that defines its “style.”

Leinenkugal another brand that I am watching. Growing up in Chicago, the advertisements for the brand were all over the radio stations. The family sold the brewery to MillerCoors in 2008 (it was moved into the MolsonCoors portfolio about eight years later). In the last year, MolsonCoors shutdown the original, iconic brewery without much notice (they will continue to make and sell the brand from one of their many alternative breweries). 

The original owners were very upset and have been trying to buy back the brewery. It’s an interesting dilemma–you cannot be so naive to know that once you sell your brewery to a major corporation for a lot of money, it is likely that they will cut jobs/shutdown factories during tough times. 

These major corporations are often run by shorter-sighted accountants who work with a very narrow and binary interpretation of how to run a company. While nobody should run a company on emotions, the accountant-type corporations time and again fail to appreciate the tougher to calculate variables of business. Instead of trying to approximate these difficult variables, they simply ignore them. Therefore, it becomes the “correct path” to just make things cheaper for these companies (labor, materials, etc.). The impact of this is often lost on the decision-makers. It is unfortunate, but a core truth and downside to how many major companies operate.

L.C.B : In your opinion, what will the American brewing landscape look like in 2050, between the large industrial breweries and the craft breweries?

R.P: 25 years is such a long time, especially considering how quickly things are developing in the world (sustainable energies, artificial intelligence). In the beer world, new ingredients products continue to develop at a rapid pace. Will anyone even use hop pellets in 25 years? Lab-based beers (“natural flavors”) seem to be increasingly popular too. It is very difficult to say what happens.

I do feel confident that America will continue to have very many craft breweries in the short term. 7,000-8,000 is probably a more sustainable number of breweries for the current beer drinking habits of Americans (versus the current 9,000+). I will note that the quality is improving–many brewers are eager to learn and continue to improve, and the populace seems to generally prefer better quality beer over time. Most of the growth in the local craft breweries here in Colorado is going to the better quality brands (Bierstadt Lagerhaus, Cerebral Brewing, Weldwerks Brewing, Westbound & Down, Prost Brewing, to name just a few). This is a good thing in my eyes. I hope that trend continues.

I am not anti-large brewery myself. Budweiser Budvar in the Czech Republic is a wonderful large brewer (Pilsner Urquell is very much worth mentioning as well). Some of the best German breweries are pretty large in nature (Rothaus is one of my favorites, along with many of the Munich-area breweries). Large breweries can have advantages in quality production, quality controls, in acquiring talented team members–if they choose the path of quality. I would like to see some of the large American breweries return to the age of the 1960s-1970s, where quality macro lagers were made with reasonable amounts of bittering hops and higher quality ingredients. The high gravity brewing (being used to such extreme amounts), cheaper extracts, cheaper syrups, shortcut fermentations, have really taken a toll on American macro beer quality. When I can taste fusel alcohols on 5% alcohol beers, you know there is a major problem here. I hope large American breweries can start to resemble more of what I see with some of the European companies I mentioned above.

Cheers to French beer lovers !

Maxence Creusat et Hervé Marziou sincerely thanks Ryan Pachmayer for his time and his analysis.
Interview conducted in English and translated into French by ChatGPT. Only the English version is binding for Mr. Pachmayer.